Live flipping contest - how would things be different?

[ryanol]

Interesting

219K views on youtube aint no joke son.

I've heard of snowmobilers on sledding forums with a couple million views making close to 400 bucks a month on youtube ads...not going to pay your mortgage but it's a decent amount of flash on the side.

I think youtube is still your low hanging fruit.

I agree though if this gets mainstream enough the rockstar and monster drinks of the world won't shy away...like others have said - way more chances of squidding yourself when you add 100-200+ horsepower into the equation

[pygmy_marmoset]

I think the two barriers balisongs have to achieving mainstream popularity are the danger and the expense.

Most people don't find the prospect of a razor sharp knife slicing into their hand fun, and most people wouldn't think of a live balisong competition as an enjoyable thing they would want to participate in. I think it's a little too much stress and pressure for most people. I also don't think malls and other venues would want it in their establishment. Can you imagine people walking by "what's going on here? Oh my god, that guy just cut his hand!" With things like rock paper scissors, someone could set up a contest in a mall and people would join. Something like rock paper scissors, by contrast, would be a fun thing to do that kids and families would find enjoyable.

Another thing that really prevents balisongs from becoming popular is the expense. If balisongs are going to catch on in a big way it's going to be among the younger crowd. Young people don't have that much money. Think of penspinning and yo-yos, two other manipulative arts that are much more popular than flipping. Even the best customized pen for penspinning, the Buster CYL can be made for less than $10. So for the cost of the absolute best penspinning mod someone can't even get the cheapest POS balisong. Then if you look at yo-yos, people can buy a Duncan imperial for $3, and for $20-$30, or the price of a CCC, people can get a high end yo-yo made of aluminum with a ball bearing axle that will last them forever.

[Silent Jay]

I think the two barriers balisongs have to achieving mainstream popularity are the danger and the expense.

Most people don't find the prospect of a razor sharp knife slicing into their hand fun, and most people wouldn't think of a live balisong competition as an enjoyable thing they would want to participate in. I think it's a little too much stress and pressure for most people. I also don't think malls and other venues would want it in their establishment. Can you imagine people walking by "what's going on here? Oh my god, that guy just cut his hand!" With things like rock paper scissors, someone could set up a contest in a mall and people would join. Something like rock paper scissors, by contrast, would be a fun thing to do that kids and families would find enjoyable.

Another thing that really prevents balisongs from becoming popular is the expense. If balisongs are going to catch on in a big way it's going to be among the younger crowd. Young people don't have that much money. Think of penspinning and yo-yos, two other manipulative arts that are much more popular than flipping. Even the best customized pen for penspinning, the Buster CYL can be made for less than $10. So for the cost of the absolute best penspinning mod someone can't even get the cheapest POS balisong. Then if you look at yo-yos, people can buy a Duncan imperial for $3, and for $20-$30, or the price of a CCC, people can get a high end yo-yo made of aluminum with a ball bearing axle that will last them forever.

To this, I can only display examples:




And for something significantly more expensive to get into:






Compound fractures, internal bleeding, road-rash, getting run over, ect..... Little more severe than a few cuts.
And wait... Theses also are expensive and dangerous hobbies... They have sponsored competitions...
I wonder....



Trust me, if anything, that's what some people actually WANT to see happen. Just saying.

[ryanol]

I think you gotta think less x-games and more Stihl Protimbersports.

But I do agree the money has to be there, and that means less demonization of bali in popular culture.

You probably have to get the likes of Buck and Gerber in the game.

Look at one handed openers and how much movement Spyderco has done with EDC. Now people don't flip out if they see a pocket clip sticking out of your pocket. But hell somehow it seems like assisted openers are more legal than balis-WTF?

It's crazy how much mainstream exposure by someone like Bear Gryllis can change the social norms and move metal.

[pygmy_marmoset]

Flipping balisongs is a lot more nerve wracking. Flipping is a lot more cerebral and less physical than most sports, and there's a kind of anxiety and tenseness involved in it that those sports just don't have.
Flipping is more gorier (fingers bleed a lot) and painful too I think. We all know that moment when you get cut, that pain that causes you to cry out and drop your bali. I have never experienced that type of pain from any other sport I've done. It is this nerve wracking high-stress nature of flipping that distinguishes them more than anything.

And even though people get injured in those sports, those are like fun injures most of the time, they're wearing all that padding, helmets, etc. It's mostly blunt force, they get bruises, they dust themselves off. Worst case scenario, like in those videos you showed, a broken bone which happens rarely. No body ever thinks, "yeah I'm going motorcross riding wonder what kind of broken bone I'm going to get this time" With balisongs, these are cuts that happen all the time.

[ryanol]

Fuck I'm a noob on a sled too (two winters)_ but I hit a four foot drop off a ditchline that I didn't see coming-rodeo'd over the handle bars and f*cked my shoulder. I take it easy, the machine has 14 some inches of suspension travel and I wear a tekvest -but even with all that I jacked myself up pretty good.

That was december and I still wake up with shoulder pain every morning and have to do PT exercises erryday.

I guess my point is w/ bali's, sledding, driving fast around winding roads and just about every other thing we do everyday- you weigh how much fun/peace/relaxation it brings you against the inherent risks you take to get it.

Of course maybe after a hospital trip and some stitches from a serious bite I'll be singing another tune.

[pygmy_marmoset]

But here's something else Ryanol, non-flippers can't appreciate flipping, they can't tell what tricks are being done, all they see is a spinning knife. This is proven by the kinds of flipping vids that get the most views on youtube. People don't care about watching flipping - it's just a blur to them. They'll watch it for a minute and be like "oh, that's neat", but it's not something that they can sit and watch for an hour because they're ignorant of the techniques and tricks. The tricks are hard to see, even I have to watch videos several times to see all that is being done.

Compare that to motorcross or BMX, everyone knows what is going on there, they can clearly see it and therefore it's more interesting to them.

[Silent Jay]

Flipping balisongs is a lot more nerve wracking. Flipping is a lot more cerebral and less physical than most sports, and there's a kind of anxiety and tenseness involved in it that those sports just don't have.
Flipping is more gorier (fingers bleed a lot) and painful too I think. We all know that moment when you get cut, that pain that causes you to cry out and drop your bali. I have never experienced that type of pain from any other sport I've done. It is this nerve wracking high-stress nature of flipping that distinguishes them more than anything.

And even though people get injured in those sports, those are like fun injures most of the time, they're wearing all that padding, helmets, etc. It's mostly blunt force, they get bruises, they dust themselves off. Worst case scenario, like in those videos you showed, a broken bone which happens rarely. No body ever thinks, "yeah I'm going motorcross riding wonder what kind of broken bone I'm going to get this time" With balisongs, these are cuts that happen all the time.

Dude, a compound fracture is not something you just walk away from.
Balisong cuts on average are hardly anything. You wanna see gore? You should see some of the shit me and my friends went though from riding our bike (not even huge BMX shit). THAT is gore.
And broken bones are much worse than a few cuts on the hand. And it's not "nerve wracking" pain either. Trust me, I've literally bruised bones from some of the cuts I've gotten with my brass bali, but that's NOTHING compared to a lot of the stuff you'll go through there. The main thing with people getting "right back up" is the instant adrenaline from the shock of impact, trust me when I say you feel that really bad a few seconds later. Pain that makes you vomit, is not something to scoff at.

Hell, the fact that you even have the option to drop you bali from a small cut you may have gotten doesn't compare to the full body impact of what you'll go through in a lot of these other sports.

Doesn't flipping a bali have it's risks? Sure. is it something the public isn't used to or willing to accept? Fuck no.
The idea that because flippers get cut, it's too gory for people to accept, is an invisible wall created by people who are in too much doubt to accept that flipping CAN go somewhere.


And to THAT I say...

[Silent Jay]

But here's something else Ryanol, non-flippers can't appreciate flipping, they can't tell what tricks are being done, all they see is a spinning knife. This is proven by the kinds of flipping vids that get the most views on youtube. People don't care about watching flipping - it's just a blur to them. They'll watch it for a minute and be like "oh, that's neat", but it's not something that they can sit and watch for an hour because they're ignorant of the techniques and tricks. The tricks are hard to see, even I have to watch videos several times to see all that is being done.

Compare that to motorcross or BMX, everyone knows what is going on there, they can clearly see it and therefore it's more interesting to them.

You good sir, are obviously someone who has NEVER sat there and showed someone a flipping demonstration.

Every person I have EVER shown my flipping was completely amazed and wanted to get into it. They were all entertained AND interested. The idea that because a video gets more views on YT that is crap flipping over something with good flipping is because people "can't" enjoy it, is the only real ignorance.

[knifezoid]

Danger and Risk being the reason people are turned off to flipping? Man that's straight up blasphemy.
We progress by bleeding and are defined by blood. The inherent risk in flipping is what makes it so
appealing in the first place. It's what separates us from the yo-yo and pen spinners. If it weren't for
the sharp end of the blade... well we'd have no edge.

People have died in motocross and become paralyzed. Same goes for many other alternative sports.
That's what makes people awestruck. They are amazed at the risk the athletes take and how they
take it head on. Similarly when I show people flipping they think we're nuts doing what we do with
a razor sharp blade. But the like it.

As for people not being able to get into it cause of money that's a non-issue. You know how much
a snowboard costs these days? Who doesn't shell out $500 for an iphone? If people want it money is
not an issue. That coupled with the fact that we're (BRS) working on driving the cost of balis down by
bringing more entry level models to the market through as many means as we can think of makes this
hobby even more accessible.

Broaden your perspective and think of ways to draw more attention to this sport. Don't imagine how
turned off people would be if there was a flipping event going on. Think of how you would get them
to be entertained and take interest and want to participate. This is what I mean by being part of the
progression or at least supporting it.

[pygmy_marmoset]

I don't know how exact it is to compare flipping to a sport like skateboarding or snowboarding. There are some major differences. Flipping is an individual thing where people have to spend a lot of time alone practicing. A sport is more extroverted, social, and has a greater amount of physicality. I think it is more accurate to compare flipping to yo-yoing.

But I understand your points and perhaps you are right that flipping has the potential be more popular than it is.

[ryanol]

Flipping has tons of room for growth but early growth is going to be at the expense of market share from other knives, not yo-yo's, devil sticks,pens or whatnot.

As it stands now in most peoples perception: for some strange reason when a knife leaves a kitchen it automagically transforms from tool to weapon.

Live flipping has tons of potential at niche event's like Game shows, knife expo's etc...I am surprised that benchmade and kershaw etc aren't flying you guys out to put on shows.

Of course from a business standpoint why would they- they already get tons of exposure at all the forums and on youtube.

[Bladejunkie]

@ Pygmy
The only reason flipping isn't as social as the other sports is because flippers are few and far between. If there were more flippers in the world you wouldn't have to travel across the state to flip with someone. Another problem is that they're illegal so you can't really do public get-togethers.

Also, the reason the videos on youtube with basic openings have so many views are because when people get interested in flipping, are they going to look at one of Fke's videos and break it down into parts and learn it?
I doubt it.
They see that and think "oh that's something I could do"

[pygmy_marmoset]

Nah, I really think non-flippers just have no clue what they're watching.

For example, I was recently looking at entropyspigots older videos, and in one of them there's this guy who's commenting things like "Have you seen the asian girl? She's so much better than you! You suck, the asian girl pwns you!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywLif8QQ ... ideo_title

^read the first few comments as they show how well non-flippers understand what they see.

[Bladejunkie]

I've always noticed haters in all of entropy's videos. I think he just has enemies