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Channel style bearing system?

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Psiber_Syn

Posts: 52

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:07 pm

Location: Alabama

Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:28 am

Re: Channel style bearing system?

what size of bearing does it have to be? i fly rc helicopters and they have some pretty small bearings in it heres a pic of the smallest ones i think but they may get smaller
Image

these are 5X2X2.5

could you not recess the bearings but rather make a hole in the blade big enuff for one bearing to go all the way through to the other side and just use one bearing per side

*edited* OK i dug out my spare parts for the helicopter and had some bearings in there. i took some SHITTY pictures with my cell phone to try to show the size of the bearings
her they are i will explain after them
http://yfrog.com/5xapr300001j
this one just shows size if you can make it out thats it next to my twist
http://yfrog.com/j5apr300002j
this one shows width it fits nicely between the sandwich style handles with about the width of 1 phos washer on each side i didnt have any around to test it but its pretty close
http://yfrog.com/joapr300003j
this one shows the inner dia of the hole it is just a little smaller than the tang pins

again sorry for the crappy pics

i dont see why drilling a hole through the blade the size of the bearing install the bearing add a washer to each side and tighten it down wouldnt work but im no mechanic so it might seize the bearing i dunno though just my opinion
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Jehosaphat

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Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:31 am

Re: Channel style bearing system?

It still seems like machining the races into the blade would be the simplest. The idea is to just have a system that completely reduces blade play without sacrificing any smoothness in the action.
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FaultyPly

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Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am

Re: Channel style bearing system?

Jehosaphat wrote:So the skate bearing/bushing thing would reduce friction where though? I was under the impression that you tighten all the way down on a bushing, and that it remains mostly stationary.
I don't think the skate bearing would reduce the friction between the bushing and blade, unless I'm misunderstanding something.


It would almost eliminate friction of the blade on the pivot screws. Plus, with PB washers and the right amount of tightening, the inner race of the bearings would remain stationary and the outer race would move along with the blade. I don't know if I am explaining it well... :happypills:
"Well, if you live, you wanna give or get old; And if you never knew that we get old, you live it up. You live it up, you get old"
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Jehosaphat

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Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:48 am

Re: Channel style bearing system?

Yes, that makes more sense, I didn't realize that the inside and outside race can move independently of one another. It seems like you would have to have the inner race(if that's the one to remain stationary) just a hair thicker than the outer race. The outer race would have to be tightly seated in the blade or there would be play. At that point it would basically be a bushing, but instead of making contact with the blade, there would be bearings to smooth things out.
I wonder how big of a difference that would make. From a practical standpoint I would expect slightly more play in the blade because it would be harder to make, there is slight possibility that the inner and outer bearing race could tilt just a tiny amount off each others axis, and there are multiple sources of minute amounts of play that together could be worse off than a regular bushing system.
I think I might also skip on the PB washers since they are softer and more slippery. As far as I understand, the goal is to have everything tight and stationary. Adding a soft washer to the sides of the bearing assembly makes it seem like the entire bearing assembly is allowed to rotate when it should be that the inner race is stationary with respect to the handle and the outer race is stationary with respect to the blade. Washers could be used to as closely as possible fill any gaps between the bearing and handle parts, but it might be better to use a more durable, grippy material than PB.
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spyderguy

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Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

if you could find the right size bearings, a tightly fitting pin could be pressed through the center and would hold everything together. I was thinking of the new strider pivots on some of Mick's customs. It would require quite a bit of precision to pull off, but would look awesome

http://www.ebosshoss.com/sites/default/ ... 994300.jpg
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DOA

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Location: New Freeland

Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

IT CAN BE DONE! for a 42 at least.

in theory.

you would need to use extreme precision though.

you will need:
96 1/64" bearings .yes, they do exist, i found them, but they need to be specially ordered. salemballs has them: http://www.salemball.com/steel-balls.htm

an improvised cage made out of a PB washer
a magnet
and a 3/16" ID PB washer sanded down to .0144"

take the first PB washer, sand down to .013" and lathe the center to .203". it is important that the center remains perfectly round. you now have your cage.

line the area around the pivot with grease.

drop the cage over the 3/16" pivot and begin to fill the center of cage with bearings.

take the second PB washer, sand down to . 0144", and VERY CAREFULLY place on top of bearings.

screw together, and VOILA. you now have 1/4 of the project done.

just do this three more times and you should be okay.

now this method SHOULD work, but i've never seen anyone do it before. i'd rather just keep my knife in its original condition than do this though.
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Jason

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Post Sun May 02, 2010 4:10 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

Wait wait wait..

So you insert the pivot through one side of the handle...
Place the washer around the pivot in the handle...
Drop the bearings between the washer and pivot...
Slip the blade in there...
Insert the pivot a little further...
Slip the washer on top of the blade...
Insert the pivot the rest of the way through and...
How do you get the rest of the bearings in there with the other side of the handle blocking the way?
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DOA

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Head in a French Puddle.

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Location: New Freeland

Post Sun May 02, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

tweezers dipped in grease, i guess :lol:
Image
"Congratulations, you've just won a spoon-fed hooker killing spree!! forked hookers are ineligible."
-Jason
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McAhron

Posts: 42

Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:41 pm

Post Sun May 02, 2010 7:14 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

Encased ball bearings,skate bearings,etc,don't work well in knives.It was first done in the early 1970's by Chew and has been tried since.To work,the pivot would have to be tight within the bearings bore and loose in the handles,this would allow excessive lateral play.Miniature encased ball bearings have been around for a very long time.If they worked well in knife applications,you would see it being used.Now needle bearings are another matter,check this out http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php ... me+changer .They are too large for balisongs but its just a matter of time before they will be available in a smaller size.To be honest,bushings are the best choice for balisongs.Their as smooth as ball bearings but dont clog up with debris,wear grooves into the handles,and need further adjusting as the balls wear that handle groove.Plus they allow the customer or end user to disassemble the bali without the fear of little balls flying everywhere.I know I used ball bearings,and IKBS is a hot topic but bushings really are superior.I wont use ball bearings in the future unless requested by the customer and many other makers are doing the same,such as Balibalistic who is on record as preferring bushings and only does IKBS at customer requests.
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FaultyPly

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Post Mon May 03, 2010 7:41 am

Re: Channel style bearing system?

Maybe it's time I get into knife making then. 8-)
"Well, if you live, you wanna give or get old; And if you never knew that we get old, you live it up. You live it up, you get old"
FkeSpydrFly wrote:watch out for that weed it might kill your grandpa


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McAhron

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Post Mon May 03, 2010 12:53 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

FaultPly,you can do it :woot: :woot: :woot:
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FaultyPly

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Post Mon May 03, 2010 4:13 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

FaultyKnives
Sounds prestigious :lol:
"Well, if you live, you wanna give or get old; And if you never knew that we get old, you live it up. You live it up, you get old"
FkeSpydrFly wrote:watch out for that weed it might kill your grandpa


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MoreBeef

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Post Tue May 04, 2010 8:00 am

Re: Channel style bearing system?

FaultyPly wrote:FaultyKnives
Sounds prestigious :lol:


I was thinking BongaloidBlades
Could be worse...I could be on the short bus with the other donut punchers.
Well dingalingong my dangalonglinglong.

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Jehosaphat

Posts: 44

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am

Post Tue May 04, 2010 6:05 pm

Re: Channel style bearing system?

I agree that encased bearings would probably not work well, and not be worth the trouble.
I think goal should be to accomplish the best result in the fewest number of parts. I've never handled a bali that uses bushings, but I do own one with IKBS. In my opinion it seems like IKBS does the job best, but can't stand up to bushings when it comes to simplicity.
I think it would be ill advised to do anything with significantly more parts (especially moving parts) than IKBS
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nevil

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Location: Okinawa Japan

Post Sun May 09, 2010 5:50 am

Re: Channel style bearing system?

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